[lork]

Anyone else think the preflop raise is overrated at a full table?

Seems to me whenever I raise it w/ AJs and get 3callers flop comes K 4 6 and Im screwed. I just threw away 4xBB to "thin the field" when I couldve limped in and saw the same flop.

I will usually even limp in w/ AK when I know i will get at least 2 callers b/c then if flop comes rags I can dump it. If i do limp and A or K hits then I win the hand.

Preflop raise overrated IMO at a full table when you are sure to get callers unless you hold high PP and/or are willing to go allin if reraised.

[razor]

no I dont think its overrated. I think its underrated. I just dont think people know how to properly play BB, SB and pre flop.

[ballen]

what happens when you raise preflop and get 3callers and your card doesnt hit?

you lose the hand, and your preflop raise

say 4ppl see the flop you are about 30% to win the pot with AJs

im not risking 4-5BB with a 30% chance why should you.

[razor]

If 4 people see the flop then you are going to win 4 times what you risked 1 in 3 times and make a profit. If you are getting paid 3:1 on a 2:1 proposition, you have way the best of it.

[chris]

It depends on position...in EP I'll limp with any playable hand..
Late Position I'll raise with almost any playable hand if there are no raises before me.

[louis]

I think it's idiotic preflop, sure a small raise to let the table know you've got a starting hand perhaps, but putting out large bets and even all-in preflop is suicide in my opinion.

Perhaps I just play things too tightly, but I don't think that action is ever really justified.

[louis]

It's only overated if you don't do it properly. If you want to thin the field down, you've got to make it substantial. Throwing in a reasonable sized ebt is all well and good, but if people have the chips who's going to flinch at taking a pair of 9's forward if it's not going to cost them much?

Make them pay to see the flop, or call it and let everyone in before assessing the situation. It's frustrating when people overestimate their hands and get lucky on the turn of the cards, but it happens and you've got to scare them off before they see anything cheaply.

[louis]

Sorry for the second post, I reread the question and thought that perhaps on occasions it is justified, but if you are going to do it then you really need to be committed to thinning the field rather than throwing open invitations to get in on a big pot with any reasonable hand.

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[mmm]

VINA DEL MAR, Chile (Reuters) - Center-left world leaders including Britain's Gordon Brown and Brazil's

Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on Saturday called for global financial reforms at next week's G20 summit, but

the U.S. warned against over-regulation.

Meeting in the Chilean coastal resort of Vina del Mar in a pre-G20 warm-up, Brown, Lula, host Chilean

President Michelle Bachelet and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said deep financial

reforms were vital to avert a another financial meltdown.

"The whole world is paying the price for the collapse of a reckless venture of those that have turned the

world economy into a gigantic casino," Lula told fellow leaders in a roundtable discussion.

"We are rejecting blind faith in the markets."

Brown said the G20 summit in London had to focus on concrete ways to revive growth and create jobs while

protecting the environment and the world's poor.

"We have got to be very clear that banking cannot be unsupervised any more; there's got to be cross

border supervision," he said, calling for an overhaul of the system of international finance and

coordinated policies to help underpin sustainable growth.
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U.S. President Barack Obama has called on fellow G20 leaders to agree on immediate action to help boost

the struggling global economy, while Brown wants the group to back a $100 billion expansion of trade

financing and agree upon a long-delayed global trade pact.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden told the meeting overlooking Chile's Pacific coast the United States was

eager to coordinate international policy to reduce systemic risk to global markets, but warned over-

regulation could hurt healthy markets.

"We should not over-react. It is not a choice of markets or governments," Biden said. "A free market

still needs to be able to function."

Thousands of people marched in Britain, France, Germany and Italy on Saturday to protest the economic

crisis and urge world leaders to act to reduce poverty, create jobs and avert climate change at the G20

summit.
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"We have to democratize the economy, globalization and the financial system. How to do this? We already

know: with information, transparency and responsibility," Zapatero said.

(With reporting by Rodrigo Martinez, Antonio de la Jara, Patricia Velez and Adrian Croft in Vina del Mar;

editing by Todd Eastham)